Godly Women · Traditionalist Bird

Lori Alexander Featured in the Daily Mail

Lori Alexander is featured in the Daily Mail today. Of all the things she has written, this one is quite mild and I don’t understand why its getting so much attention. If they think that is bad, wait till they read about how 8 months old need flicked and how people who cut and abuse themselves do that out of guilt for not being spanked as children.

A word about expectations destroying relationships. Likewise, I have found having expectations that Christians will be kind and set apart from the world has caused a lot of disappointment. So now I don’t expect much from them. They are no different than any other person.

I think Lori saying “you married him to be your protector and provider” hits on some of the recent discussion here. Ya know, isn’t marrying for those reasons selfish?

 

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138 thoughts on “Lori Alexander Featured in the Daily Mail

  1. TPC said:

    “They also just can’t accept that sex doesn’t solve everything and isn’t itself everything in marriage. There are a lot of couples out there who are still into each other physically who are in terrible marriages, if they even get to the altar in the first place.”

    That’s actually an evergreen advice column subject, “Dear Agony Aunt, Everything about my relationship is terrible except the sex. What should I do?”

    “But sometimes it can’t be settled because one or both of you has crippling physical health problems that make sex impossible for years or possibly the bulk of marriage (particularly if you are married 30+ years, older bodies are less predictable with certain matters).”

    There’s a lot of refusal to accept that aging is a reality. For instance, they don’t seem to register the fact that senility is a problem for a hard-core version of submission.

    Like

  2. There’s also stuff that happens good and bad from breastfeeding and getting pregnant frequently. Dryness, spontaneous orgasm or difficulty achieving orgasm, sensitivity issues from being touched out by all the youngins’ she’s supposed to be dropping. There’s good and bad sexually from just doing the normal procreative business during marriage.

    They also just can’t accept that sex doesn’t solve everything and isn’t itself everything in marriage. There are a lot of couples out there who are still into each other physically who are in terrible marriages, if they even get to the altar in the first place. It can help, and yeah yeah we all should be cheerfully willing to settle the marital debt as often as we can.

    But sometimes it can’t be settled because one or both of you has crippling physical health problems that make sex impossible for years or possibly the bulk of marriage (particularly if you are married 30+ years, older bodies are less predictable with certain matters). Or you had challenges with the kids (multiples/special needs/pregnancy complications including stillbirth and miscarriage) Good luck coming up from the mire to have sex daily or more often in that case. Sometimes even weekly is a challenge with just regular very little children. Some women (and men) handle pregnancies that end in miscarriage or stillbirth with a gungho attitude. Other women (and men) retreat into fear of going near the other. And it’s not even that unusual to have at least one miscarriage if you’re pregnant more than a couple of times.

    And I haven’t covered cancer, work/job issues and other medical trauma that don’t directly relate to sex and the kids resulting from it. A person doesn’t need to agree to a celibate marriage, but just be open to the idea that sexsexsex isn’t the point of marriage. It is a great deal more than that.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Nonya said:

    “That was a nice try by seriouslyserving, but they’ve already got the sex thing all figured out. If a woman doesn’t orgasm it is because she’s not submissive enough.”

    I laughed, but then I realized that it’s not funny.

    One of the worst things about the manosphere is how it helps guys develop an impervious shell to new information, particularly new information delivered by women, even when women are the most obvious source of information for the subject area. I mean, we couldn’t possibly know more about our own physiology than they do, right?

    I wonder what the manosphere party line is on vaginismus…(Sheila Wray Gregoire has done some great pieces on this, by the way.) It just blows my mind that the manosphere guys all want virgin brides, but don’t seem to realize what that entails, practically speaking.

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  4. That was a nice try by seriouslyserving, but they’ve already got the sex thing all figured out. If a woman doesn’t orgasm it is because she’s not submissive enough.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Eavan said:

    “People with a more normal view of sex don’t generally participate in sex studies.”

    There is that.

    I was also thinking that the average better-looking guy might have been around the block more times and hence have a better idea of what all the different buttons and dials do.

    But that would be a boring, non-manosphere approved explanation.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. The first question when one runs across such as study should be, “How did they get this information and from who?” People with a more normal view of sex don’t generally participate in sex studies.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Amy said, ” it would make sense to get input from a real woman ”

    seriouslyserving says:
    June 30, 2016 at 4:08 pm

    I just wanted to make one comment, because I know you’re single DS and perhaps marriage is not too far off? (And maybe there are other engaged or newlywed guys reading) Don’t take studies like these ones and freak out if your new wife doesn’t orgasm immediately – it is often something that needs to be “practiced” and “learned”. This is not a reflection on your masculinity!
    Trying to phrase this in an appropriate way…. a woman can be very aroused, and still find intercourse itself painful, when you are in those early days.

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  8. I don’t know how to put this delicately, but the Christian manosphere guys almost always have really crude/magical ideas of female sexual response. They seem to honestly believe that women climax automatically in response to alpha males, and there’s nothing more to it.

    This is an area where they’re really ignorant (including guys who are old enough to know better), and it would make sense to get input from a real woman or an actual book instead of being content with what knowledge they can gather from Porn U and Roosh V fish stories.

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  9. Nonya,

    Pretty much.

    I also feel like the sex problems are probably not unrelated to the fact that they tend to have a really, really selfish view of sex. And I wonder if there isn’t some relationship between the selfish view of sex and the virgin fetish–it’s hard to get away from the suspicion that they want a naive young woman who won’t realize that she’s being ripped off.

    But, of course, that approach is very short-sighted, as eventually the naive young woman is going to get bored with all the pointless pawing and manhandling as she gets older, which eventually leads to the caterwauling about “denial” and “frigidity” that we see so often.

    That’s my working theory, at least.

    (Wow, it was hard to keep that PG-rated.)

    Like

  10. So these men are poor providers and poor parents who don’t help their wives with housework and instead order them around and belittle their work. If the wife or any other person points out that this isn’t the way to a happy marriage the men point to Ephesians 5:22 or to the nearest submission blogger who assures them that women are all shrews and that treating your wife this way is normal. The men see this behavior as completely unrelated to situations where their wives won’t have sex with them, don’t enjoy sex with them and/or “frivorced” them. Those things are all caused by feminism.

    Liked by 2 people

  11. Amy says “the washer and dryer do not move the clothes in and out by themselves–a very important fact if there are several loads to be done that day. So, being gone for the morning or the day can really throw a monkey wrench in the process.”

    Exactly. Laundry upkeep requires you to be home and remember to keep it moving by not getting distracted by other things. Every holiday or day out of the house I pay for by double or triple laundry the following days.

    Like

  12. Also, I’ve been wanting to add that much as the guys like to pooh pooh laundry (you just put the clothes in! all done!) the washer and dryer do not move the clothes in and out by themselves–a very important fact if there are several loads to be done that day.

    So, being gone for the morning or the day can really throw a monkey wrench in the process.

    Like

  13. Mrs. H said:

    “I’ll never forget the complete look of bewilderment on his face when we were getting ready for bed and he saw the clothes from all five of us from the day plus bath time towels already filling the laundry baskets that he worked so hard to empty.”

    Funny! Sad!

    My version of that is peeking into my laundry room, thinking it doesn’t look too bad, and then opening the cupboards that the laundry chute empties into from the second floor and seeing a solid, packed pillar extending from the bottom of the cabinet to Lord-only-knows how high in the chute.

    (Love the laundry chute, by the way.)

    Like

  14. I remember one time I was busy helping extended family and got really behind on laundry. DH decided to get me caught up when he was home for the day. He probably ran about 8 loads so that’s about 8 hours for completion. I’ll never forget the complete look of bewilderment on his face when we were getting ready for bed and he saw the clothes from all five of us from the day plus bath time towels already filling the laundry baskets that he worked so hard to empty. Priceless. It’s a never ending job. You’re never done with it. There’s always laundry in some stage of process from the hamper to folded in the closet.

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  15. My housekeeping is a little more streamlined, so my version for a family of five is:

    –two loads a day (skip a day–double up the next–DO NOT SKIP MORE THAN ONE DAY)
    –two extras for washing everybody’s sheets and pillow cases, and some extras for periodically dealing with comforters and other household items.

    But of course, there are times when children are sick and they wind up going through three sets of bedding and sets of pjs in a single night (plus towels get dirty during the cleanup). The day after that, the washer and dryer run virtually from dawn to bedtime.

    So, 2+ loads a day average? Probably not 3, but we definitely cannot manage less than 2 a day average.

    Liked by 1 person

  16. What doing laundry for a family of 4 actually looks like:

    Sheets – 2 – 3 Loads
    Kitchen/Bath Towels & Mats – at least 2 Loads
    Whites – Usually 1 load – hot water & bleach (so no mixing with other loads)
    Lingerie – 1 load
    Dark Colors – 1-2 loads
    Light Colors 1-2 loads
    Table Linens – 1 load

    Every other week:
    Comforters/bedspreads/blankets – 2-3 loads

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  17. About laundry–I was just dealing with the aftermath of a whole-family pool visit. It looks like just one pool visit can generate more or less a load of laundry, just by itself. The five of us generate a big pile of wet towels per pool or water park visit, not to mention wet suits to be managed.

    So, I continue to be puzzled by the guy I mentioned earlier who believed that his family of 4 needed only three loads of laundry a week.

    Like

  18. TPC said:

    “These are the same guys who argue that 90-99% of married women “settled” and are secretly unhappy with their betabux husband because they don’t constantly post online about how *edited for content* their husband makes them feel.”

    That’s really funny!

    If a husband really does make a woman feel *edited for content*, she’s not going to waste a lot of time telling strange men on the internet about it. There are much more obvious things to do about it…

    “I don’t think they are at all serious about helping anyone and I wish I could drag the nice Christian people who wash up at places like dalrock’s away bodily.”

    I think it might help to try to put the shoe on the other foot.

    Example: Dalrock guy hates being ordered around by his wife.

    Putting the shoe on the other foot: A lot of women hate being ordered around, too.

    or

    Example: Dalrock guy hates feeling that no matter what he does for his wife, it’s never good enough

    Putting the shoe on the other foot: A lot of wives hate feeling that no matter what they do, it’s never enough.

    “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” is an awfully good rule of thumb, and yet you never see it quoted at Dalrock.

    Weird.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. These are the same guys who argue that 90-99% of married women “settled” and are secretly unhappy with their betabux husband because they don’t constantly post online about how *edited for content* their husband makes them feel. When they aren’t discouraging each other from provision or normal levels of fathering.

    I don’t think they are at all serious about helping anyone and I wish I could drag the nice Christian people who wash up at places like dalrock’s away bodily.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. Maea said:

    “When husbands aren’t noticing their wives as doing something real, and actual work, this is what happens.”

    Yeah.

    Here’s a typical Dalrockian paradox:

    1. Women need to do X, Y and Z!

    2. X, Y and Z aren’t actually important.

    Here’s a helpful little hint for our manosphere friends: when you’re asking somebody to do something (especially something your interlocutor doesn’t want to do), don’t be telling them in the same breath that it isn’t important or worth doing. It’s bad for morale.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. I honestly think these things illustrate the problems associate with the trads TPC points out in her blog. When husbands aren’t noticing their wives as doing something real, and actual work, this is what happens.

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  22. AmyP “I feel like that may be emblematic of this whole discussion, actually–not noticing when other people do work.”

    Yes. It reminds me of an old email story that I saw years ago about a husband always coming home from work and asking his wife what she does all day. She then decided to spend the day not doing a thing. Dishes piled up, crumbs and trash littering the tables and floor, laundry not done, toys everywhere, children in saggy diaper/dirty clothes, beds unmade etc. When her husband came home that night and saw the mess, he asked “What happened?” She said, “Now you know what I do all day.”

    Liked by 1 person

  23. Mrs. H said,

    “Pffft……He probably only ASSUMES the trash gets taken out once a week, tops, because that is about all he sees of either his kids or wife taking it out. IOW, the other couple of times/week he doesn’t see it, so of course it doesn’t happen.”

    That crossed my mind, too–although I was charitably assuming that he was just counting the one time a week he does it and not noticing the times when other family members do it.

    I feel like that may be emblematic of this whole discussion, actually–not noticing when other people do work.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. AmyP shared feeriker’s quote “My family of four when I had two kids at home didn’t require garbage to be taken out more than once per WEEK, tops.”

    Pffft……He probably only ASSUMES the trash gets taken out once a week, tops, because that is about all he sees of either his kids or wife taking it out. IOW, the other couple of times/week he doesn’t see it, so of course it doesn’t happen.

    Liked by 2 people

  25. The difference is the females don’t ban men and we all know why. They don’t officially declare its a women only space despite repeated mentioned of how “I only advise women or this blog is geared towards women”.

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  26. There is a lot of hypocrisy when the manosphere enforces bans on women at their spaces, but they are free to break into female-centered spaces. I could see them yelling at the belly of a pregnant woman, insisting that they aren’t “pregnanting right.”

    Liked by 1 person

  27. I got a really good one:

    feeriker said:

    “My family of four when I had two kids at home didn’t require garbage to be taken out more than once per WEEK, tops.”

    Ewww.

    That’s a really bad idea, especially for a family that cooks and eats a lot at home. We don’t usually cook a lot, but 2-3 days is tops for our kitchen trash (and we sort out a lot of recycling).

    Also, I hope we’re talking about big children, because at our house, the diaper pail has to be emptied twice a week because it just can’t fit more than four days of diapers.

    Liked by 2 people

  28. Back to housework–here’s a tldr of the Dalrock guys’ view of housework:

    It’s super easy…

    …and no, I’m not going to help you.

    ????????

    Like

  29. I have no beef with sex-segregated spaces – they’re often quite necessary for both men and women.

    What bothers me is either of these two gentlemen (and I use the term loosely) might have shown a little class and invited Ken to THEIR OWN spaces to discuss the issue – NOT shame him on his wife’s blog! And really the best one to host the discussion would be the guy who runs a guy-only blog (the Caldo person, I think). That way, the men could have a conversation AMONG THEMSELVES.

    Instead…way to go there, tearing a man down in front of his wife and all her cohorts! Like Totally Supermanly Fer Shur!

    Liked by 2 people

  30. Yeah and on spaces the reason I am pasting in all these quotes is so I don’t invade male spaces. As if that counts for anything.

    Like

  31. Maeve said:

    “What’s is it with these men and Ladies’ Blogs? Do they crash kaffeklatsches too? How about quilting circles? LaLeche Classes? Play group?”

    A secular advice blogger I read (Dear Wendy) tried to organize a mothers of newborns group that would meet at her apartment. A SAHD was pouting very publicly about not being allowed to come. (You know, to a meeting in a private home where at least half the attendees will be basically topless, being mostly new at breastfeeding.)

    I can’t seem to find the post right now, but it was one for the scrapbooks.

    So, yeah, violating “women’s spaces” is a thing.

    Liked by 2 people

  32. What’s is it with these men and Ladies’ Blogs? Do they crash kaffeklatsches too? How about quilting circles? LaLeche Classes? Play group?

    LOL. I could see some of them showing up at La Leche to tell the women that they are doing it wrong.

    Liked by 2 people

  33. Lori says “We changed the post.”

    What’s this “we”? I thought it was his post. He writes a post to say that just because Lori is calling wives to not get bitter over their unmet expectations of how little their husbands are helping out, that that doesn’t necessarily follow, as the feminists at the Daily Mail are assuming, that they are saying that husband’s shouldn’t ever help their wives around the house. Sounds perfectly reasonable. THEN, the manosphere gets after him about how even admitting husbands should help out is adding fuel to the fire of feminism. The manosphere guys, “crap all over” (thanks Maeve) Ken. We never hear a peep from Lori in defense of her husband but Ken does mention that Lori takes a harder stance than he does. It seems to me that behind-the-scenes, Lori is running the show and convinces Ken to rewrite the post, meaning she probably “helped” him rewrite it, hence “We changed the post.” To top it off she sheepishly admits Ken is a pleaser at heart rather than telling Dalrock and Crew to “step off.”

    Interesting.

    Liked by 1 person

  34. One of the things that broke the spell of the Manosphere for me was the realization that I was censoring myself based on what anonymous fools who don’t care about me would think if I did such and such.

    Liked by 3 people

  35. So…. at the risk of repeating myself:

    a couple of (uninvited) Christo-Mano-Types crash a LADIES BLOG to tell the blogger’s husband (who, BTW, is running his household as he sees fit) that he’s not running it correctly.

    What’s is it with these men and Ladies’ Blogs? Do they crash kaffeklatsches too? How about quilting circles? LaLeche Classes? Play group?

    Most egregious, however, Lady Blogger/Wife does not kick them off her porch and throw the skillet at them because they came (basically) into her husbands home and crapped all over him! Disgraceful!

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  36. What is the saying about wolves don’t loose sleep over the opinions of sheep….Ken is no wolf, and no leader. Do I please the feminists or do I please the mansophere? Tough call. How about saying what you mean and meaning what you say. Standing by your word, thinking for yourself.

    Like

  37. Stunning. Ken and Lori have bowed down and submitted to the manosphere.

    Lori Alexander says:
    June 29, 2016 at 12:04 pm
    We changed the post ~
    http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2016/06/going-viral-virus-of-unmet-expectations.html

    I want you all to know that Ken is the most generous servant I have ever met. He will do anything for anyone who asks. He is a pleaser at heart, therefore, the post that have caused so much angst among all of you. He wants me to help him ask me to help him to do more since he is so used to doing everything for himself, but I do want to serve him more. It has all been a growing process for both of us as I am sure it is for all of you.

    Cane is very pleased. They get on their knees for the manosphere.. The gold standard in play. They shamed Ken for cowering to the feminists, I think this is because they rather the Alexanders cower for them. This is my new theory that is quickly proving true. The manosphere wants your submission. As a man and leader of your household, you have to do things the manosphere way or else. Ken has no authority. He is too afraid of not pleasing everyone and rather waffles. The manosphere cried out the Ken was pleasing the feminists and not them and got angry.

    Liked by 2 people

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