Traditionalist Bird

The Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything

Forget 42, sex is the answer to life, the universe, and everything.

And traditionalists love talking about it.

Reading the comments here, specifically this one that says sex:

“…supersedes raising kids and evangelizing and everything, for it models our love of Jesus.”

I agree it is incredibly important and is the only thing that separates a marriage relationship from being friends or brother/sister or roomates. However, more important than evangelizing? I am surprised to hear a Christian say this (or am I?).

Its so important yet Christians can’t even get the chance to experience until its too late, meaning once they are married. What if you are like this woman (or could be a man), but don’t have this wisdom to not marry from the get-go (because of family or cultural pressure or thinking the desire will come once married):

“If I marry, I will obey and submit to my husband, but I have never felt sexual or romantic attraction to anyone, so I do not date.”

The thought of sex stops this woman cold.

It is exactly right that such a woman or man should never marry. It would only create a lot of strife and hurt with their partner, but I don’t doubt that there are those out there that feel forced to stifle their true feelings and go through the checklist of what a good Christian woman is suppose to do (i.e. marry, have kids, stay at home, provide sex) to appease family, community, and their biblical role and this is how we end up in the mess of withholding wives and frustrated husbands or withholding husbands and frustrated wives. People just want to feel normal and appear normal and having no or low sex drive is certainly not normal, so they will take up the now common Christian advice of “fake it till you make it” and embark on a marriage that is possibly fake from the beginning. The husbands who are stumped when their appearing high drive wives all of a sudden stops sex may think its just matter of bringing back the spice to the bedroom, learning game, but I wonder if there was really no/low drive all along and she just got tired of playing the “fake it till you make it” game.

Some people were just never meant to marry in the first place or perhaps they can but they have to find another person with same level of drive, if any drive at all. Yet, how can that be sussed out when you can’t try out sex beforehand or even much talk about it (at least meaningfully since you haven’t experienced it)?

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15 thoughts on “The Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything

  1. Stone said:

    “LOL, good point, not a command men. I didn’t even pick up on that.”

    It’s like Shakespeare–you can’t expect to get everything out of it on the first reading.

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  2. “Wives, if you find yourself with a husband that is unhappy, complains a lot, is emotionally unavailable, physically withdrawn, or all the way to the point where he is treating you like an enemy,….”

    Yeah…so NOT the traits of a command man. A command man doesn’t crumble when when others don’t share his ideas for what is important or when they don’t work to acheive his vision for him. They get to work on accomplishing what’s important to them and inspire others, through their success, to get onboard.

    Like

  3. Meh…Trey’s “advice” to wives falls flat for many reasons. It’s hard to take anyone seriously who only sees his wife as a sex provider and nothing else. ” if it were not for testosterone and the sex drive that God put into men making them attracted to women for sex, I personally don’t believe that the vast majority of men would choose to have anything to do with women at all. ”

    His mention of having a command man, visionary man or steady man means he subscribes to the Michael and Debi Pearl vision of marriage. These different types of men are from her book Created To Be His Helpmeet. Seeing how their vision of parenting is beating a child with flexible tubing, IIRC, until you break their will and that three children are now dead because of parents who took their advice to heart, reduces anything he has to say about marriage as severely lacking in credibility.

    He sees himself as a command man (eyeroll). A command man could be a person with leadership qualities that inspires those around them or a person who needs to control others from their own narcissism. Trey seems to be the latter. Everything is about his wants and desires. When his vision of his wife is that her only value is in the sex she provides him, then it follows that she’s not going to be open to even caring about what is important to him.

    He’s the last person who should be doling out marriage advice and he’s best ignored. Lori is a fool for even giving him a platform in which to spread his garbage. But then again, it’s not surprising since she’s all in on the Pearl vision of family life as well.

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  4. Trey said:

    “If your husband is saying that he has lost respect for you, then there is probably something that he considers to be YOUR responsibility that you are not handling in a way that is acceptable to him.”

    Wow–saying that one has lost respect for a spouse is a really nuclear way to voice criticism.

    DO NOT DO THAT!

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  5. More good stuff from Trey:
    “Wives, if you find yourself with a husband that is unhappy, complains a lot, is emotionally unavailable, physically withdrawn, or all the way to the point where he is treating you like an enemy, it might just be because of your sinful attitude, behavior and actions. ”

    Gee, an unhaaaappppy husband. Aren’t those just his feeeelings? How about this Husbands, if you find yourself with a wife that is unhappy, complains a lot, is emotionally unavailable, physically withdrawn, or all the way to the point where she is treating you like an enemy, it might just be because of your sinful attitude, behavior and actions.”

    WOW, but that is a big no no…can’t say that to men! Maybe that is why she isn’t giving sex, she is unhappy, you need to check your attitude! If a woman suggested that she would be a feature story to bash on Dalrock.

    Here is the full text:

    I don’t know if this is applicable to your marriage or not but there is a possibility that it might be, especially if your husband is a “command man” personality. I hope you will give it consideration.

    Often there are issues in a marriage that are much more important to the husband than they are to the wife. In fact, it might be of utmost importance to the husband and the wife just does not understand what the big deal is about it. The husband typically starts out gently trying to get his wife to do (or not do) whatever it is that is important to him. It could very well be sex and intimacy as this post is bringing to light. It could be other things like how she disciplines the kids, how much effort she puts into cooking, how she dresses, her adherence to the budget, not keeping herself physically fit, how clean she keeps their home, or any number of things. Some things a husband can compromise on, some things he cannot.

    If your husband is saying that he has lost respect for you, then there is probably something that he considers to be YOUR responsibility that you are not handling in a way that is acceptable to him. Whatever the issue is, it is something that is of critical importance to him and unless it is done in a way that satisfies him, he will not have respect for you and it will materially impact his life in a negative way. It could be something that is a conscience issue with him and he sees the way the wife is or isn’t handling it as sin. His conscience will not let him just ignore it.

    The husband often starts by talking to his wife, giving hints and suggestions, then making requests, making his thoughts and desire(s) known to her but she is either oblivious to what her husband wants or (because of how SHE feels about it) chooses to discount him and do it her way regardless. I guess in some cases she might just be contentious and rebellious and tells herself that she has the right to do it the way she wants to and that her husband will just have to get over it.

    A steady man or a visionary might let it pass (even though it damages the marriage) but a command man is just not going to be able to do that. In most cases, his conscience will not let him. He wants or believes that it must be done a certain way, and he knows that before God he is the one responsible for it all and that his wife is supposed to be being his helpmeet and submitting to him in everything. He strives for patience and continues to try different things to get his wife to comply but for whatever reason, she does not.

    Suggestions become complaints and requests become demands but eventually, (and it has most likely has taken years to reach this point) if his wife continues to contend with him and refuses to help him to accomplish life in the way that he is convinced is right, he looses respect for her. He finds it hard to love her and impossible to like her. Instead of being his helpmeet, she is a constant hindrance to him. Instead of being his best friend, she has made herself his (possibly worst) enemy.

    He will try and persevere but at some point the accumulated level of frustration and pain that this contentious wife has created in her husband becomes more than he can bear and he begins to respond to his wife (at times) in sinful ways. He might withdraw from her physically and emotionally (to try and minimize the pain). He might get angry and yell and say harsh things. The harsh things that he is saying might be absolutely truthful but he says them in a less than loving way. He is beginning to give up on his wife and his marriage. Instead of being the best thing in his life, it/she has become the worst. He has become miserable due to the exhaustion, pain and frustration of having to constantly be contending with his uncooperative wife who is continually blocking his goals.

    Wives, if you find yourself with a husband that is unhappy, complains a lot, is emotionally unavailable, physically withdrawn, or all the way to the point where he is treating you like an enemy, it might just be because of your sinful attitude, behavior and actions. You might want to consider what the Bible says about a contentious woman. Better yet, consider what it says about being your husbands submissive helpmeet. Get this part right and your marriage and the sex WILL be so much better for the both of you. Continue to get this part wrong, and nothing but more pain and despair will follow.

    If you want to figure out what the issue might be in your marriage, here is what you need to ask yourself. What is it that your husband has complained to you about the most over the years? Is there an issue that you often argue about? What issue are you just sick of hearing him talk or complain about? What ever this issue is, and no matter how petty or insignificant you might consider it to be, it is very important to your husband. If it weren’t, he wouldn’t have spent so much time and effort complaining to you about it!

    Also, if you are convicted that just in general you are more contentious than cooperative with him, that would be a great place to start also. I hope this might help some wives out there to understand their husbands and their marriages better.

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  6. In response to this:

    “And speaking of hormones ladies, if it were not for testosterone and the sex drive that God put into men making them attracted to women for sex, I personally don’t believe that the vast majority of men would choose to have anything to do with women at all. ”

    Lori says:
    “Ken and I have spoken about this and we agree. Way too many wives make their husband’s life miserable.”

    Got that? Women are only good for sex. Yup, created to be his holemeet. Who wants to write the book? The assumption is all women are nasty.

    and this:

    “AnonM says:
    January 21, 2017 at 12:19 pm
    Michelle,
    My husband has also said the same thing. And I have also heard other men say it. It has nothing to do with hating women. If a man finds no pleasure in interacting with women other than the physical side, because it brings garunteed pleasure, then women need to quite their nagging, gossipping and controlling behaviour to give him something additional to find pleasure in. No one finds joy in an unpleasant person.”

    You see, if a man finds no pleasure besides a providing a hole, it must be because you are a nag, etc. IT can never have anything to do with his attitude or point of view. How many times are women told to check their attitude, to focus on the good of their husband. Where is the advice telling the men on the thread to check their attitude and focus on the good in their wives.

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  7. Stone “Hopefully sex robots become a real thing as that is exactly what he needs.”

    Right. It’s scary how many of the red pill men are anxiously awaiting virtue reality sexbots. It goes to show why they can’t find real women to date them. Their inability to relate to a woman as a human being beyond “getting sex” prohibits them from finding a real relationship. I would even go so far as to say that they don’t believe in their own human dignity to love and be loved by engaging with something that is non-human.

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  8. Yup, its awful and reducing women that way doesn’t bother Lori it seems. Is it created to be his helpmeet or is it holemeet? Hopefully sex robots become a real thing as that is exactly what he needs.

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  9. “And speaking of hormones ladies, if it were not for testosterone and the sex drive that God put into men making them attracted to women for sex, I personally don’t believe that the vast majority of men would choose to have anything to do with women at all. Women are in so many ways different than men and are so confusing, emotional, irrational and so much trouble that without the sex drive, the vast majority of men would not give a woman the time of day. This is my personal opinion and might not be true.”

    This is a horrible way for men to see a wife. He is also conflating women as a group with an individual wife who is personal to him. The sex drive is for procreation and to create a stronger bond between a husband and wife so that any children produced are more likely to have their right met to be raised and educated by both their mother and father. Sex should always be seen in the context of the family and the marriage that it originated from.

    I hope Trey isn’t married because it would be so dehumanizing for his wife to know that her only value to him is a ultilitarian use of her body to satisfy his sex drive. Perhaps women only seem confusing, emotional and irrational because he’s never really tried to get to know his wife as a person rather than a tool for a specific purpose. It seems dealing with all the apects of her humanity is just a big pain in the ass to get around to get what he really wants from her. He’s so blinded by his own sex drive and is so mastered by it that he can’t relate to her in terms of her being a whole person.

    Men like Trey shouldn’t get married and I hope he’s not. He is utterly and completely selfish. If he is married, I have no sympathy for him if his wife is refusing. She has authority over his body and by refusing she is keeping him from using sex in a way that God did not intend for marriage. If he can’t love his wife, then he doesn’t get to claim a unity that sex with him wouldn’t really reflect.

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  10. His comments are so jammed packed that only upon multiple reads do I catch other things. I love how emotional abuse for women is their own making, but not for men, like I said, that a very REAL thing that they never make up!

    OK, that last quote…how did I miss that?! It really relates to my disagreement with all this “fake it till you make it” advice. Do they think women are so dense that we can’t tell sincerity or won’t pick up on that resentment?

    Lori is always very quick to defend Trey too. Someone suggested these men should pray for their wives and Lori was quick to says “how do you know they aren’t praying?”

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  11. “Men feel more entitled to certain acts because they see “porn stars” enjoying it so “Why won’t my wife do this?”

    Or red pill women online are talking about their sex lives, often in great detail, and then all their frustrated orbiters wonder “Why won’t my wife do this”? So, rather than go give attention to their wife and work on that they revolve around the fantasy wife online.

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  12. The comments are a treasure.

    Trey says:

    “And speaking of hormones ladies, if it were not for testosterone and the sex drive that God put into men making them attracted to women for sex, I personally don’t believe that the vast majority of men would choose to have anything to do with women at all. Women are in so many ways different than men and are so confusing, emotional, irrational and so much trouble that without the sex drive, the vast majority of men would not give a woman the time of day. This is my personal opinion and might not be true.”

    I know Stone quoted Trey in the birdwatching thread, but I feel like you chopped off the interesting bit at the beginning that really makes that quote:

    “The vast majority of women (in our society) have never experienced physical abuse and I would contend that most of the emotional abuse they have experienced is of their own making. I will assure you that every man married to a gate-keeping or refusing wife is both physically AND emotionally abused by their wives!!!”

    “Even if you give your husband all of the sex he wants and his physical needs are met, if you do not emotionally participate (rather just give him Duty Sex), his emotional needs are still not met and no intimacy will be created between the two of you. Women, there are no half measures here. You have to give YOURSELF COMPLETELY (physically and emotionally) to your husband for Gods blessings to be realized.”

    I feel like the scriptural support for that last quote is a bit light and I can only imagine what St. Paul would say–let alone a celibate parish priest. Also, as St. Paul envisions a totally symmetrical duty of wife to husband and husband to wife, that would suggest that if Trey is correct that the husband is also bound to give himself “COMPLETELY (physically and emotionally)” to his wife to receive God’s blessings.

    Trey is kind of the gift that keeps on giving. I’m starting to wonder if he’s a poe, actually. Check this out:

    “Lots of men will just fake it and apologize when they are not even in the wrong and force themselves to do nice things like the dishes or vacuum and pretend to show kindness toward you… all in an effort to get sex because their physical need is so overwhelming but their words and actions are not real! It is just a show they are putting on to try and get you to have sex with them and in their hearts they resent it and it damages any true intimacy that might be between you!”

    Gosh–I wonder if it might not be damaging to a relationship when women fake it sexually?

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  13. Don’t you think as a society we’re a little spoiled and have too high an expectatoin about what our sex lives should entail?

    I can’t imagine that in a more agrarian culture with day-long back breaking work and no access to porn or soft porn on tv or in magazines, that Mr. and Mrs. farmer had as many sex hang-ups as we do today. If they weren’t too dead tired to even have sex at the end of the day, it was probably a more straight forward affair. I’m not saying it didn’t have affecton and pleasure from having learned what the other likes and sharing that but that if their minds weren’t full of media images of what it should look like or be like, they actually would have gotten more satisfaction from personal discovery between the two of them. Porn and even just sex scenes on tv distorts and even prohibits real sharing because each partner has expectations of the other from outside sources that are a perversion of the sex act. This can lead to real frustration, IMO. Men feel more entitled to certain acts because they see “porn stars” enjoying it so “Why won’t my wife do this?” Women feel more pressure to “put on a show” for their men because it seems to be “what men want” from what they’ve seen through media.

    Sex does reflect the unity between Christ and the Church but that doesn’t mean it supercedes other necessary work in the life of the Christian. Everything has it’s time and season and sometimes other things from a practical point of view, must take more of our attention in priority.

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  14. Stone said:

    “I wonder if there was really no/low drive all along and she just got tired of playing the “fake it till you make it” game.”

    I’ve wondered the same thing. There is, after all, a very clear media script for how women are supposed to behave sexually, and it’s quite easy to learn–consider how often “faking it” gets mentioned in media directed at women.

    “Last fall, the Kinsey Institute at Indiana University released the results from their National Survey of Sexual Health and Behavior. One glaring finding: Men thought women were having more orgasms than they actually were. Eighty-four percent of guys in the survey said their partner had experienced orgasm during the last time they had sex. But only 64 percent of women confess to actually having experienced an O. That’s a pretty major gap between perception and reality!”

    http://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/advice/a3700/how-to-tell-him-you-have-been-faking-it/

    Throw in actual sexual inexperience, a desire not to disappoint one’s husband, and male ignorance (and in the case of manosphereans aggressive refusal to learn anything from women) and yes, you do have a recipe for the woman faking it for a while, getting bored with the pretense, and then not bothering with either sex or pretending (even if the wife has a fairly normal sex drive). Of course Pinterest or Downton Abbey is going to sound better than that.

    “Yet, how can that be sussed out when you can’t try out sex beforehand or even much talk about it (at least meaningfully since you haven’t experienced it)?”

    I would say, date a bit (so you understand what it looks like when somebody is actually into you and how you feel when you are into them) and read a book or two–even a secular book or two.

    Make sure your fainting couch is ready–I personally found Dr. Ruth’s Sex for Dummies very helpful.

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