Bird Watching

This page is to share random quotes (tweets) and any thoughts from observing any feminist birds, traditionalist birds or angry birds. Comments flow from newest at the top to the oldest. A bit awkward to read that way but save tons of page scrolls to the most recent discussions.

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2,333 thoughts on “Bird Watching

  1. Oh boy look at all those gossips at Dalrock talking about Mandy Hale. Tsk tsk…
    Them talking about something she publicy said is no different than us commenting on stuff they publicy say.

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  2. “In Red Pill land, the wife gets an allowance in cash for the household budget which can be revoked as a consequence of foolish spending. She will have to be guided by her much more rational husband in how to spend money until she is tailor-made and molded to suit her very own husband.”

    Enjoy doing all the grocery shopping and paying all the bills and buying all your own clothes, Mr. Red Pill!

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  3. Stone said:

    “Some of course aren’t as easy as made out to be. Like going to 4-6 stores to get the best deals. Yeah thats great fun when you have to bring small kids around you and make that many stops. She says go to the library cause its free, yes absolutely I agree, but lets remember nothing is ever free. Taxes pay for the library (I think property taxes, so you pay for it somehow). She doesn’t use air conditioning. Um, yeah that isn’t going to work where I am at and when you have a baby and its 100 degrees out, no way. She say use meat as a condiment. No, not if your man expects meat for every meal.”

    Yeah.

    My family doesn’t use AC, but they live in the Pacific NW near the coast.

    I remember how my dad felt about the idea of my mom sending him PBJ in his work lunch. NOPE!

    Wait–I thought previously we were pillorying women for going to so many stores?

    I go to a lot of stores with Baby Girl, but she’s been a fantastic shopper since 2, but even then I would never inflict more than one big box store on her per outing (except Petco).

    The library can also be very taxing with small children. Sure it’s free, but not if your kids shred any books or you get fines.

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  4. I can’t find it on his site, but I swear Cane Caldo once did some number crunching and concluded “there aren’t enough virgins to go around.”

    I wonder how many male virgins there are who are willing to settle ondust and stones and how many reject that paradigm. And for the latter, whether it’s due to a genuine lack of judgement or due to simply not caring about sex anymore.

    All of this I think has to do with the fact there isn’t anyone on the Internet who hasn’t been infected by the sexual revolution; in fact I’ve heard a disturbing factoid about teens and early 20’s who prefer Onanism to the actual thing.

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  5. There really are two competing interests for women
    1. the strong biological urge to have babies
    2. the strong desire to marry a man they are crazy in love with and very sexually attracted to

    Finding #2 to make #1 happen in the very narrow window of time women have can be tricky. Sure, she can marry anyone and won’t have a problem getting married if the purpose is just to have babies without caring about having a passionate, sexually fulfilling marriage. I think when it gets down to it some women just have to make a hard choice between #1 or #2 if number #2 isn’t coming along quickly enough. Some may just say “screw it” in frustration and settle for the blah guy because they want to have babies so badly (thinking they can develop attraction over time even) and others may take the risk of not having children or at least not as many of children and hold out for a man they are very attracted to.

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  6. AmyP
    “Live under your father’s roof until your parents find a suitable match for you at Church preferably no later than age 22.”

    How many people even in the Red Pill world did it that way?”

    Pretty much none but that doesn’t matter. It’s just what would be ideal in Red Pill fantasy land to ensure their chances of finding a woman who has had no other man to compare them to. Never mind that unless the woman is constantly chaperoned, even while living at home, it’s no guarantee of her virginity. In their fantasy, all men would be in on the conspiracy of keeping women virgins until marriage. That’s why they idealize other cultures of the past that kept control on women’s sexuality. Christianity, however, over time recognized that part of our imaging God as human persons was our ability to reason to determine the good and our freedom to choose (or not) that good. Restricting freedom to the point that someone can’t choose the good for themselves, takes away their dignity as made in the image of God, which women most certainly are. They resent that women won’t react to them as they desire so they fantasize as much restraint as possible so as to give them little choice.

    “Since young men these days aren’t established before age 28-30, the ideal match for these young women will be single Christian men from 28-35 yrs old, without totally ruling out men up to age 45.”

    Wouldn’t a lot of those 28-30 year old guys have an existing girlfriend who has been waiting for at least a couple years?”

    Well in Red Pill land perhaps they would have women to sleep with (the desparate leftovers who didn’t snag a husband from 18-22) but once they are established they fantasize about getting one fresh on the market at 18 for a wife. Younger, hotter, tighter, ya know.

    “Parents should be teaching their daughters to marry young and how to show IOI’s to the older men at church.”

    How? I think it would be hard to do anything being normal church friendliness without making a spectacle of oneself.”

    Oh but this would be so EASY in Red Pill land. EVERYONE would know it’s on both the parents and the church to run the marriage market. Pastors would give stern sermons to the young ladies about making their desires known by flirting openly (but modestly, of course) with the men they have their eyes on and the church would have activities of all kinds to give them much opportunity to do so outside of Sunday service.

    “One very rarely hears of young couples meeting at church these days.”

    Of course, that might be true today but in Christian Red Pill land it’s par for the course. Note: the Church is not just a place for the person to encounter God, it’s also the most effective means to control the marriage market (all the women) so those less eligible men who find it hard to compete without societal props can get the wife they are entitled to, darn it!

    “Their daughter’s should also be advised to not be too picky by waiting for the perfect guy or they will hit the wall at 28 in which there will no longer be any men who are interested as their best, fertile years are behind them. It will also be easier for these young women to be submissive to their husbands who have more status and maturity than they do which will keep them sexually attracted to their man and fulfill their hypergamous tendency.”

    Are immature people actually that sexually attracted to mature people? (Older, I get, but I suspect that with regard to maturity, like is mostly drawn to like. Wickham pairs off with Lydia, and Darcy pairs off with Elizabeth. Lydia would not be able to understand Darcy’s appeal at all.)”

    In Red Pill land, ALL WOMEN ARE IMMATURE CHILDREN (to lesser or greater degrees of childishness) and are inherently attracted the to the older more mature man who only ever gets more attractive with age.

    “Red Pill guys are insecure around women (and probably around their male peers as well) in general so younger and more naive makes them less nervous.”

    Wait until young and naive is handling their checkbook and credit cards! Teehee!”

    In Red Pill land, the wife gets an allowance in cash for the household budget which can be revoked as a consequence of foolish spending. She will have to be guided by her much more rational husband in how to spend money until she is tailor-made and molded to suit her very own husband.

    “They don’t like to hear Christian women talking about their ideal guy or waiting for him because that means they will most likely not measure up compared to other men. They chalk up their rejections by many Chrisitan women to women’s pickiness because they don’t want to face that there might be something about them that gives off that creepy vibe that most women instinctually avoid.”

    Right.

    “Creepy” is misandry.”

    Not really. That would only be true if AMALT but they’re not.

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  7. I find it interesting that on one hand they trash the women who take their sweet time finding a man, but they also trash the women who settle. Wouldn’t it be better that a woman waits till 40 (presuming she is OK with no kids) and it be a man she is extremely attracted to so the sex will be good, etc., rather than a woman who just settles and picks some random guy she isn’t attracted to and then divorces later.

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  8. Robyn at DS says this regarding Lysa

    She’s set herself up in the public eye as a teacher of women, therefore, according the Scriptures she believes in and teaches from, God says in James, Not many [of you] should become teachers (self-constituted censors and reprovers of others), my brethren, for you know that we [teachers] will be judged by a higher standard and with greater severity [than other people; thus we assume the greater accountability and the more condemnation].

    Yes, I agree and likewise that should apply to Lori too. IF you hold yourself out as a teacher you are held to a higher standard and seeing Lori call people who disagree with her has haters of God, mentally ill, reprobates sets a great example of how Christians should act. I really wonder sometimes if I shouldn’t just start accusing Lori and other as being mentally ill back, I mean heck she is the role model setting the example of how women should behave.

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  9. Lori despite saying she would be gone for a whole week is back posting again. Today she shares again one of those Laine letters with all those frugal tips.
    Some of course aren’t as easy as made out to be. Like going to 4-6 stores to get the best deals. Yeah thats great fun when you have to bring small kids around you and make that many stops. She says go to the library cause its free, yes absolutely I agree, but lets remember nothing is ever free. Taxes pay for the library (I think property taxes, so you pay for it somehow). She doesn’t use air conditioning. Um, yeah that isn’t going to work where I am at and when you have a baby and its 100 degrees out, no way. She say use meat as a condiment. No, not if your man expects meat for every meal.

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  10. Lots to add I think but just have a few mins here and there to pop in..
    Last night with fireworks was a good example of how sleeping naked doesn’t always work out. Between trying to keep kids from waking up and a dog barking and kids waking up from fireworks or dog barking it was a lot of juggling and best intentions were to get naked, but we both passed out from the exhaustion of the day.
    Another suggestion for married life in the same spirit of sleeping naked is do not get a king sized bed. It sounds nice and luxurious but often you end up sleeping so far apart that you might as well have twins.

    Like someone suggested, being flexible is key. Why that is such a crazy suggestion, I don’t know. Lots of things sound cute when you are in the puppy dog/honeymoon stage of marriage, but don’t always work out. Strive for such things as sleeping naked, but don’t idolized them or make them a hard rule or think there is something wrong with your marriage if such “rules” don’t work out.

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  11. Two Cent Woman,

    That was truly beautiful. *sniffs* *dabs eyes*

    I’m going to go line by line, but first off, can they ever point to anybody who has followed that path and succeeded? Not even the Duggars do it that way, as they are drawing on a national pool of suitors.

    Red Pill life script for young women…..

    “Live under your father’s roof until your parents find a suitable match for you at Church preferably no later than age 22.”

    How many people even in the Red Pill world did it that way?

    “Since young men these days aren’t established before age 28-30, the ideal match for these young women will be single Christian men from 28-35 yrs old, without totally ruling out men up to age 45.”

    Wouldn’t a lot of those 28-30 year old guys have an existing girlfriend who has been waiting for at least a couple years?

    “Parents should be teaching their daughters to marry young and how to show IOI’s to the older men at church.”

    How? I think it would be hard to do anything being normal church friendliness without making a spectacle of oneself.

    One very rarely hears of young couples meeting at church these days.

    “Their daughter’s should also be advised to not be too picky by waiting for the perfect guy or they will hit the wall at 28 in which there will no longer be any men who are interested as their best, fertile years are behind them. It will also be easier for these young women to be submissive to their husbands who have more status and maturity than they do which will keep them sexually attracted to their man and fulfill their hypergamous tendency.”

    Are immature people actually that sexually attracted to mature people? (Older, I get, but I suspect that with regard to maturity, like is mostly drawn to like. Wickham pairs off with Lydia, and Darcy pairs off with Elizabeth. Lydia would not be able to understand Darcy’s appeal at all.)

    “Red Pill guys are insecure around women (and probably around their male peers as well) in general so younger and more naive makes them less nervous.”

    Wait until young and naive is handling their checkbook and credit cards! Teehee!

    “Their deep insecurity also means that they have to snag a virgin who will never have anyone to compare them to. Note- virginity as a sign of purity and faithfulness to God is not the reason they value virginity. It’s soley about not having to worry about measuring up to other men. If and when they get a chance to slut it up out of wedlock, they don’t thnk twice about their own virginity.”

    Right.

    “Red Pill guys fear rejection so if Christian parents would only do the arranging and introductions, this would take so much of the burden off the guy of having to make that scary first move.”

    Right.

    “They don’t like to hear Christian women talking about their ideal guy or waiting for him because that means they will most likely not measure up compared to other men. They chalk up their rejections by many Chrisitan women to women’s pickiness because they don’t want to face that there might be something about them that gives off that creepy vibe that most women instinctually avoid.”

    Right.

    “Creepy” is misandry.

    “I’m sure there are more but their seemingly impractical demands that don’t make much sense for young women to follow are all mostly based on their own fantasties of getting the girl with the least amount of risk to their already low self-esteem rather than having to do any heavy lifting on their part of improving their chances through self-development.”

    Very nice!

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  12. Red Pill life script for young women…..

    Live under your father’s roof until your parents find a suitable match for you at Church preferably no later than age 22. Since young men these days aren’t established before age 28-30, the ideal match for these young women will be single Christian men from 28-35 yrs old, without totally ruling out men up to age 45. Parents should be teaching their daughters to marry young and how to show IOI’s to the older men at church. Their daughter’s should also be advised to not be too picky by waiting for the perfect guy or they will hit the wall at 28 in which there will no longer be any men who are interested as their best, fertile years are behind them. It will also be easier for these young women to be submissive to their husbands who have more status and maturity than they do which will keep them sexually attracted to their man and fulfill their hypergamous tendency.

    The motivation for the Red Pill guys to make these demands are numerous but here are a few.

    Red Pill guys are insecure around women (and probably around their male peers as well) in general so younger and more naive makes them less nervous.

    Their deep insecurity also means that they have to snag a virgin who will never have anyone to compare them to. Note- virginity as a sign of purity and faithfulness to God is not the reason they value virginity. It’s soley about not having to worry about measuring up to other men. If and when they get a chance to slut it up out of wedlock, they don’t thnk twice about their own virginity.

    The less educated and younger she is, the more dependant on him she will be and can be manipulated and controlled better.

    Red Pill guys fear rejection so if Christian parents would only do the arranging and introductions, this would take so much of the burden off the guy of having to make that scary first move.

    This also follows why they hate to hear Christian women waiting on God to bring a nice Christian guy into her orbit because that means he will have to bear the risk of approaching her. If only these Christian women would give off undeniable signals to the men who interest them, they could approach without the fear of rejection. They want a guarantee of success.

    They don’t like to hear Christian women talking about their ideal guy or waiting for him because that means they will most likely not measure up compared to other men. They chalk up their rejections by many Chrisitan women to women’s pickiness because they don’t want to face that there might be something about them that gives off that creepy vibe that most women instinctually avoid.

    I’m sure there are more but their seemingly impractical demands that don’t make much sense for young women to follow are all mostly based on their own fantasties of getting the girl with the least amount of risk to their already low self-esteem rather than having to do any heavy lifting on their part of improving their chances through self-development.

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  13. Stone said:

    “Well, Scott did a whole post on this with 500 comments, but all for nothing since its been deleted. If you can’t get married by 30 they say there must be something wrong with her, but if you wait too long something is wrong with you too.
    More to add to this, but gotta run.”

    Looking forward to it!

    By the way, there’s a mathematical problem with Red Pill Christian advice that says:

    1. Young women should marry right away

    and

    2. Young men should wait and perhaps not marry at all.

    If all young people tried to follow that advice to the letter, a lot of the women would be unable to marry.

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  14. Dalrock criticizes a bunch of Christian women who are talking about patiently waiting, but what are their (moral) alternatives? Are they supposed to give up hope, be impatient, give up their morals?

    Really, what does he want them to do instead?

    Well, Scott did a whole post on this with 500 comments, but all for nothing since its been deleted. If you can’t get married by 30 they say there must be something wrong with her, but if you wait too long something is wrong with you too.
    More to add to this, but gotta run.

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  15. OK, continuing with Dalrock:

    “Modern Christians have for the most part adopted the feminist life script for women, with some modification. Instead of admitting what they are doing, Christian women generally claim that what looks suspiciously like a feminist lifestyle is really a sign of piety. The catchphrase for marriage delaying Christian women is “season of singleness”. The longer the woman’s season of singleness, the more pious she is said to be.”

    Look at that tramp Teresa of Avila! She was single her WHOLE LIFE.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa_of_%C3%81vila

    “In the Christian feminist life script, God is ordering Christian women to move to the big city (or at least out of their parent’s house) and pursue education and career. Women who do this are thought to be demonstrating that they trust God will keep His promise to deliver their dream husband if they stay strong and independent long enough.”

    As we have often discussed, how well does living with your parents in your small town and not getting an education or a career work for getting a husband these days? In what way does that move a young woman closer to getting a man?

    Dalrock criticizes Shari Funk for a quote where she says that she wants a husband to center her life around, and she complains to God about it, but “But in that gentle, quiet voice, he also speaks the words I’ve heard over and over again . . . my daughter, wait.”

    What is this poor woman supposed to be doing instead of being patient? She can’t make a man materialize through sheer force of will, and being impatient and desperate is not very attractive.

    Dalrock criticizes a bunch of Christian women who are talking about patiently waiting, but what are their (moral) alternatives? Are they supposed to give up hope, be impatient, give up their morals?

    Really, what does he want them to do instead?

    Dalrock is doing this very naughty thing by equating these feminist women (who were presumably not chastely waiting) to Christian women who are (presumably) chastely waiting, and he’s beating up on them for their suffering and faithfulness. Gross!

    (Granted, the one single Christian woman could probably do way better anywhere other than NYC.)

    Mathematically speaking, if there are more single women in church than single men in church, it just isn’t true that every church-going woman can marry a church-going man at will, so it doesn’t make sense to blame those single women for not being married. Furthermore, Dalrock et al believe in a heavy-duty version of wifely submission and don’t want women to have college education and careers, so (if we are following their program) it is if anything even more necessary to be VERY careful as women about who we marry–which is going to take more time.

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  16. Two Cent Woman said:

    “Another point I want to leave about those innocent men who just want to have a good marriage (which may be true) is that red pillians seem to be very rigid thinkers combined with a great fear of us “rebellious” women who can look like angels of light but are the devil in disguise,is that in their quest to have control over not having their fears become reality, they can get a little freaked out when their “rules” can’t be adhered to absolutely, which they will then take out on their wives.

    “Naive young single women will agree to these “rules” before marriage because it sounds sweet and exciting and when life gets in the way, and hubby is unhappy with baby, or nursing, or her feeling too cold to be naked or whatnot, she will take it to heart that she’s the evil witich who can’t be submissive. She will try harder and harder to please until one day something snaps and she realizes that her needs and her biology matter too and then she will develop resentment towards her husband.

    “All we’re talking about here is that there can be a disconnect between expectations and reality and that red pillians often come across as people who can’t deal real well when those two things to match. They will get scared they are losing control and then become even more demanding and rigid and that can lead to a very, very bad marriage.”

    Exactly. Having more rules doesn’t make people good.

    For the long term health of the marriage, flexibility is going to be much more important than having a rule for everything.

    Also, if the wife ever mentions the Big Book o’ Rules to a female friend, the female friend is going to tell her that her husband is a controlling loon.

    Repressive regimes have lots of rules.

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  17. BillyS at Dalrock

    “I met with the first woman I was not married to last night. It lasted about 20 minutes until she decided I needed more time to heal and immediately walked out because I was no longer a candidate in her eyes. She couldn’t even be cordial and talk after that point.

    It was a waste in one aspect, but it did help me learn or reinforce some things about the character of women. Even those who claim to serve God really serve themselves far more than they will admit.”

    Yep, it had to do with the “character of women” that she took off after 20 minutes, determined he needed more time to heal, and couldn’t be cordial at the end. I wonder what her side of the story is? Could it be he spouted off a bunch of red pill nonsense that she had the good sense to walk away from? I also suspect it’s why his wife left after he spent years immersed in that garbage. She probably couldn’t take it anymore and would rather die poor than live with it any longer.

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  18. Usually when people can’t refute the points you are making in relation to something they said, they resort to lame name calling.

    Another point I want to leave about those innocent men who just want to have a good marriage (which may be true) is that red pillians seem to be very rigid thinkers combined with a great fear of us “rebellious” women who can look like angels of light but are the devil in disguise,is that in their quest to have control over not having their fears become reality, they can get a little freaked out when their “rules” can’t be adhered to absolutely, which they will then take out on their wives.

    Naive young single women will agree to these “rules” before marriage because it sounds sweet and exciting and when life gets in the way, and hubby is unhappy with baby, or nursing, or her feeling too cold to be naked or whatnot, she will take it to heart that she’s the evil witich who can’t be submissive. She will try harder and harder to please until one day something snaps and she realizes that her needs and her biology matter too and then she will develop resentment towards her husband.

    All we’re talking about here is that there can be a disconnect between expectations and reality and that red pillians often come across as people who can’t deal real well when those two things to match. They will get scared they are losing control and then become even more demanding and rigid and that can lead to a very, very bad marriage.

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  19. Dalrock has a good one.

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2017/07/03/a-very-long-season-part-1/

    “For several decades now the feminist life script for women has been to delay marriage as long as possible to focus on education, career, travel, and sexual experience. Many have mistaken this strategy by feminists as signaling that they don’t value marriage, but this is not the case for the vast majority of them. Marriage is essential to the feminist dream of having it all, they just don’t want to waste a day more of their youth and fertility on their husbands than absolutely necessary. Even the fictional protagonist from Sex and the City must eventually marry Mr. Big at the overripe age of 42; otherwise she would just be a slutty failure and not a feminist heroine.”

    The median bride in DC (the “state” with the highest age at first marriage for women) is 29.7. That’s 12 years younger than the Sex in the City bride. New York State is 28.4.

    https://www.livescience.com/27974-women-media-age-marriage-states.html

    You’ll notice that both of those median ages are substantially lower than the Sex and the City heroine’s 42. Perhaps Sex and the City was not a documentary?

    I would say that anecdotally, even rather liberal young women seem to be very keen to get married by 30 and get on with the baby having, with very few women having it be their druthers to start trying after 35.

    Dalrock quotes Lori Gottlieb saying, “every woman I know—no matter how successful and ambitious, how financially and emotionally secure—feels panic, occasionally coupled with desperation, if she hits 30 and finds herself unmarried” back in 2008.

    Again, notice that 30 is not within miles of 42. (I say that as a 42-year-old woman–it’s not the same thing at all.)

    Kate Bolick said, “But what transpired next lay well beyond the powers of everybody’s imagination: as women have climbed ever higher, men have been falling behind. We’ve arrived at the top of the staircase, finally ready to start our lives, only to discover a cavernous room at the tail end of a party, most of the men gone already, some having never shown up—and those who remain are leering by the cheese table, or are, you know, the ones you don’t want to go out with.”

    And yet TPC has been doing some very interesting work demonstrating that college women are in fact having a LOT of babies after 30.

    Dalrock continues, “Modern Christians have for the most part adopted the feminist life script for women, with some modification.”

    This is getting long, so I will do another post starting there.

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  20. Gossip?

    As a smart guy once said, “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

    About it being warmer to sleep naked–not if your other half does what some of us do asleep at night and rolls up in all the blankets like a burrito.

    People do all sorts of odd things while asleep at night–both my husband and I are often guilty of peeling the covers off the other at night. In those cases, having some clothes on can make the difference between sleeping through it and waking up REALLY cold in the middle of the night.

    Sleeping naked is great, it’s just doesn’t work all the time for normal people.

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  21. Aw, I see we are gossipers for pointing out some of the realities of being married with children. Definition of gossip:
    “casual or unconstrained conversation or reports about other people, typically involving details that are not confirmed as being true.” What details are we talking about that are not confirmed as true? They put info out in public and we comment.

    Speaking for myself, I have absolutely no issue with sleeping naked. We strive for it and in fact its why my husband hates lingerie. I and the others here are just pointing out that its not always as easy as it looks. With newborns you often are having sex while listening to a crying baby, so the deed gets done its just not ideal and it can be hard to really enjoy it with that background music.

    I see why in that book “The Mask of Motherhood” we all keep the mask up, because if you dare to point out a reality of what life with kids might look like–you are a gossiper. Everyone has to learn for themselves and there is no telling them otherwise.

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  22. Gee, I really hate it when people try to Christianize sin so they don’t have to put in the work in fighing against it. Especially men who try to say there is a holy way to make and view porn.

    http://eroticchristian.com/pornography-is-not-addiction-according-to-the-american-psychological-association/

    “Because we gave the territory of erotic desire over to Larry Flynt and Hugh Hefner, the erotica industry is populated only with people promoting lust, licentiousness, adultery and fornication. But it shouldn’t be so. There ought to be thousands of internet sites that are filled with Christian married couples making beautiful sex tapes which other single people and married couples can view. There is no command in the Bible for the prudishness foisted on us by our Victorian ancestors. The Bible commands us to flee fornication and flee youthful lusts. But that doesn’t mean that a young man should flee sexual desire. In fact, if a young man does not have strong sexual urges, he needs to visit a psychiatrist (like me 🙂 to find out what is wrong. That desire is what leads him to seek a wife and become a responsible husband.

    By making masculinity unholy, the church has driven good men from the church and made others live their lives in unnecessary guilt.

    Take back erotica. Look at sites like HolyErotica and start some sites of your own. Make some holy sex tapes and share them, or sell them. Take back sex from the lust-peddlers.”

    “Here is the fact. God created erotica for a purpose. He wants men to be sexual. He treats their jackoff sessions as normal part of life. Erotica is intended to help a young man look forward to and seek marriage. It is intended to keep a married man desirous of and close to his wife, sexually. Even porn watched solo brings couples closer together.”

    1) Right. A Christian couple should make a “holy” sex tape for teen boys to masturbate with. That seems to be in line with God’s plan for sex. NOT

    2) The Church didn’t make masculinity unholy by teaching that masculine desire has an appropriate time and place, otherwise self-mastery is called for. It’s not unnecessary guilt when you make use of your sexuality outside of God’s plan. That guilt is a good thing that helps you avoid sin.

    3) This is what happens when someone is so steeped in porn that they can’t even see their own addiction to it and their conscience is so dulled that they find ways to justify it. He says re: his battle to stop viewing porn “But, sometimes, just sometimes, the reason I am fighting so hard and failing is because God never intended me to fight that battle in the first place.” Oh so because sin is always the easier and wider road that must mean God intended for us to set our feet upon it instead of the narrow way.

    4) His whole rationalization that Christians should make and view “holy” porn is because we humans have a sexual desire to see the naked body and be turned on by it. It’s good for teen boys to watch sex tapes so they can look forward to what to expect in marrige. Anyone ask the wife if she wants to be married to somone one who approches sex by what he’s seen in porn rather than something they discover together and can develop a sexual language all their own intstead of imitating someone or many other ones? Of course not, because when you are blinded by you own lust, you don’t really think of or consider the other person. ““There is no dignity when the human dimension is eliminated from the person. In short, the problem with pornography is not that it shows too much of the person, but that it shows far too little.” St. John Paul II

    5) His latest post boasts porn is not an addiction then he links to an article that discusses how researchers are unclear at what point it becomes an addiction and that there are studies that show an addiction component and others that are not conclusive. It gives the opinion of porn proponents of how it can be a positive thing but also gives plenty of ways it causes problems. He’s so addicted he can’t even deduce the point of the article correctly but just sees what he wants to see in it. His post title “#Pornography is not #Addiction according to the American Psychological Association” makes it seem like they came to a definitive conclusion but the fact is that the research hasn’t come to any conclusions yet but there is real evidence that it hurts real people in real relationships and even users themselves if they lose their job because they can’t stay away from it even at work.

    This guy was a commenter at DS’s.

    Like

  23. “And that’s one of the reasons why parents are (excusably) happy to send their 18-year-olds off to college.”

    Eh, that only works if you don’t have other younger teens still in the house. By the time our last leaves the house, IF she leaves at 18, we’ll be 56. I imagine by then, there will be other issues to work around re: sexual intimacy. I hope not but I’m not there yet to know and I’m old enough to not be so naive to assume there won’t be.

    Like

  24. TCW,

    Ay yay yay!

    And that’s one of the reasons why parents are (excusably) happy to send their 18-year-olds off to college.

    Related–I remember a rather memorable thread (maybe FJ or elsewhere) talking about Lori Alexander’s insistence on vacation sex, no matter how unfavorable the circumstances. Apparently, a lot of people have uncomfortable memories of being in the same hotel room when their parents were being intimate. EEK!

    As my mom used to say when I was a tot, “Little pitchers have big ears.”

    Like

  25. Seriouslyserving has made our point for us in that there is much “work around” involved in having a rule about “sleep naked” or “shower together” or “be naked at all times in the bedroom.”

    Our criticism isn’t that it’s not possible or that we have an issue with “sleep naked”, it’s that what unmarried men who’ve never lived with a woman and had to deal with her biology and children, IMAGINE it will be like when they make “rules” about sleeping naked, “My intent is to build unstoppable sexual intimacy.” per DS.

    The reality, is that while it could make for a certain organic family intimacy, when bonding with newborns, it’s not going to always be UNSTOPPABLE sexual intimacy in the way a single guy thinks it’s going to be. IOW, it’s not always going to feel or look sexy and can oftentimes be downright inconvenient and frustrating. In fact, we solved the privacy problem with little kids walking in by putting a lock on the door but haven’t solved the privacy problem of older children who are now aware of what sex IS being able to guess what’s going on by the sounds coming from your room late at night. Especially teens who don’t go to sleep at 9pm like they used to but are up til 11pm or later. We have a house in which there are two bedrooms on either side of our room with only a wall inbetween. It’s not always real sexy having to wait til midnight when you’re exhausted and have to get up early the next day to have sex without imagining you are traumatizing your teen by making it obvious what you are doing. The other option is to be very, very quiet, which stifles your freedom of expression to a great extent and makes YOU feel like a teen again trying to make out in the family room without alerting the parents as to what is going on. We’re not about to go the hippie route of letting our loving all hang out in front of the kids. It’s very hard to get the mood right when you are aware of providing audio for other people. It’s ok that they know that their parents have sex in theory but really, kids don’t want to be privy to it in reality. It makes for a really uncomfortable awkwardness the next morining in the light of day, when you KNOW that they KNOW what was going on last night. It’s not prudishness, it’s just common courtesy that other people really don’t want to have to see or hear what is supposed to be intimate or private between married people. Not because what you are doing is wrong but because it’s sacred, which is always kept as something somewhat mysterious and set apart from the ordinary.

    Like

  26. Two-Cent Woman said:

    “Naive is a good word for much of what DS wrties about marriage. Remember how he’s going to let her know when she’s looking too fat and that they’re going to work out at the gym together everyday too? Hope she’s not an introvert. That much togetherness after working or being home with kids all day, will drive an introvert nuts. Anyway, that’s great for newlyweds but not so much once multiple children are in the picture. With kids, you end up doing many things separate because SOMEONE has to supervise the children.”

    I realize that there are gyms with childcare, but I have to say I’ve visited one and walked right out. (The YMCA is probably more reputable, but it’s across town for us.)

    And I wouldn’t put an infant or a 1-year-old in even the best gym day care because germs. One workout could get you a sick child for a week, in which case no workouts (or much else) for that week.

    Does he really think he’s going to work out at the gym together with his future wife every day? That’s adorable.

    Was he hoping for a large family (hence the need for a young-as-possible wife), or am I thinking of someone different?

    Like

  27. Stone,

    Naive is a good word for much of what DS wrties about marriage. Remember how he’s going to let her know when she’s looking too fat and that they’re going to work out at the gym together everyday too? Hope she’s not an introvert. That much togetherness after working or being home with kids all day, will drive an introvert nuts. Anyway, that’s great for newlyweds but not so much once multiple children are in the picture. With kids, you end up doing many things separate because SOMEONE has to supervise the children.

    Like

  28. Lame Blue Pill Fish works really hard to impresse a female. He needs to learn dread game so she doesn’t think she’s “all that.” I’m being sarcastic, of couse. It’s actually quite amazing what this fish constructs to attract a mate.

    Like

  29. Yeah most people have those standard tub showers where only one can get under water while the stands cold. Again, its not the porn style showers.

    Tyrants? Hmmm sounds like someone is trying to evoke emotion. The sentiment really is sweet, but its partly nieve. Its certainly nice to try for things, but it often is unpractical (cue red pill woman (with 5 kids) to prance in to tell everyone how she has sex in the shower every morning and it works GREAT!).

    Like

  30. seriouslyserving said:

    “(We have also discovered that sharing a shower is not super sexy in the middle of winter when you only have one tiny shower head… if we ever build our own house, we are going to build a shower with two heads!)”

    Yeah.

    A big tub has various merits, too.

    “What I don’t understand is how anyone could read through this thread of marriage advice and come away with the idea that manosphere men are horrible tyrants who have completely unrealistic ideas about marriage.”

    Well, it would be tyrannical (and stupid) if the “rules” were insisted on with no consideration for reality, hygiene, or the wife’s comfort.

    Like

  31. Good points, everybody.

    There’s also the question of thermostat preferences. If one spouse prefers colder temperatures and gets to decide on the thermostat setting, then it’s kind of mean to make them sleep naked, too. (Although if the thermostat is set hot, then it’s more feasible.)

    A recent try at doing this led to me waking up VERY COLD with the air conditioning at 3 AM and taking a while to get back to sleep.

    DO NOT WANT TO HEAR NAKED BOOMER STORIES!

    LA LA LA LA LA *ears covered*

    Is anybody going to tell DS that when you have a little baby occupying the master bedroom, daddy may go sleep elsewhere all by himself and like it? (Or at least like it a lot better than getting up every 2-3 hours.)

    Sure two people can occupy the shower when there are little kids at home–it just won’t be the parents.

    I think DS’s rules are actually very sweet coming from an engaged guy, and those things are nice as options, but it would be TERRIBLE as the Law of the Medes and the Persians, which changeth not.

    I wonder what the whole marital rulebook looks like…

    Like

  32. Which only reinforces my strong belief that the ‘spherian men are all deeply entrenched into porn…..they are out of touch with all reality. The purpose of marriage? Sex producing babies? The periods that make conception and childbirth possible? The wife who is ill for many months in pregnancy? A difficult birth? ANY birth and its subsequent recovery? Breastfeeding the infant when it is born? Nope. Not on their radar at all, and as soon as all these issues come into the light for them……REBELLIOUS WIFE! FEMINIST! OH, THE HORROR OF IT ALL! (Sarcasm intended.)

    They are PORNOGRAPHY ADDICTS……it is more and more obvious by the day.

    Like

  33. “Aw yes try sleeping naked when she has her period or is gushing blood and other ickiness for a few weeks after birth.”

    Exactly. Hope he’s not queasy about blood swirling in the water of the shower as they wash each other or doesn’t mind changing sheets every day that she’s nursing (which adds up to a lot of days, years actually, when you have a large family) and leaking breast milk all over them. Some men’s fantasies forget the basic biology of their wives bodies, who if they are “one” with, will have to deal with the reality of it being inconvenient to their own desires oftentimes.

    Like

  34. Aw yes try sleeping naked when she has her period or is gushing blood and other ickiness for a few weeks after birth. And its inconvenient to have to put clothes on when you have to hop out of bed every hour with newborns (although a robe does make it quicker). Even when kids are older you still are often called out of bed or the kids surprise you in your room.

    Washing each other is unusual, have not heard of that one before. Of course once kids, AS IF 2 people can ever be in the shower together. Its amazing one parent even gets to shower per day.

    Like

  35. DS “Hah, already ahead of you on a few. I told her more than a year ago that I have 3 “rules” for the bedroom:

    1. Sleep naked
    2. When you’re in the bedroom you have to be naked (except lingerie and getting ready to leave it)
    3. Shower with each other and wash each other

    Ha…..another theory that sounds good on paper but doesn’t always work out IRL due to any number of factors.

    Besides, what’s with all the sharing of info that should be private and personal….the very definition of intimate. As soon as you share it, you make it common and ordinary. It kills the thrill of something shared together that the rest of the world never sees or knows about.

    Like

  36. “What makes you an adult is earning money. Not raising children. You have to earn money.”

    The longer I live, and the longer I am a stay-home homeschooling mother, the more this begins to make sense…..I have lived it.

    Like

  37. Stone said:

    “Oh and if she is a child, better not be having sex with a child.”

    Oh, yeah. I missed that rather horrifying detail.

    By the way, I have an inspiring, but totally non-Red Pill love story to share with you. My husband was telling us today about St. Margaret Clitherow, who was martyred as a Catholic under Henry VIII.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Clitherow

    “Clitherow was born Margaret Middleton in 1556,[3] one of five children of Thomas and Jane Middleton. Her father was a respected businessman, a wax-chandler and Sheriff of York in 1564.[4] He died when Margaret was fourteen. She married John Clitherow, a wealthy butcher and a chamberlain of the city, in 1571 and bore him three children. The family lived in The Shambles.

    “She converted to Roman Catholicism in 1574. Although her husband belonged to the Established Church, he was supportive as his brother William was a Roman Catholic priest.[5] He paid her fines for not attending church services. She was first imprisoned in 1577 for failing to attend church. Two more incarcerations at York Castle followed.[6] Her third child, William, was born in prison.[7]”

    She was executed by being crushed to death, pregnant with her fourth child, around 30 years of age.

    Like

  38. Imagine the shock to find out that said child can take you to court. Also I can’t imagine it looks good for Scott , a real psychologist, be seen around men who believe that

    Like

  39. Of course, that kind of talk is really just showboating for the other guys. I seriously doubt the guy would have the nerve do any such thing IRL. Mostly, they’re afraid of women and the bigger the talk, the higher the level of insecurity.

    Like

  40. There’s so much arrogance and ignorance in believing that he’s always going to be working, always going to be well, and is never going to be in a position of dependency on his wife.

    I mean, isn’t half the point of marriage to have somebody who is there for you when things aren’t going well?

    Like

  41. Good grief and then they wonder why women want to get jobs…they simply don’t want to be treated like children. That attitude is still really all around. What makes you an adult is earning money. Not raising children. You have to earn money.

    Like

  42. Acksiom at Dalrock’s

    “If I’m paying and she isn’t, I’m the adult and she’s the child, and the child does what the adult says.

    If she’s wearing too much makeup, she goes back in the house and removes most of it, because I’m paying. If I don’t like her clothes, she goes back in the house and puts on something closer to my tastes, because I’m paying.

    She turns off her phone, because I’m paying. We go to places I like full of people I like where we do things I like, because I’m paying. I give her permission to order for herself because that gives me useful information about her, but I could order for her if I preferred to, because I’m paying.

    And so on.

    If I’m paying and she isn’t, I’m the adult and she’s the child.

    And the child does what the adult says.”

    He sounds like the kind of date the woman who runs this blog is warning against.

    https://tradcatfem.com/2017/06/30/early-dating-red-flags-of-a-predator-sociopath-or-abuser/

    Like

  43. Amy,
    Yes, that is good. They love self aware women its what all the red pill women are. The red pill is all about waking up. And yeah such deep wisdom to take a movie reference and make a movement out of it.

    Like

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